The humorous part was this wasn't what got me bounced it was the follow on comment that he said was "personal" not that many people got to see it, but what I said was along the lines of this:
"But which parish HAVE you been the pastor of? [I further stated] The church has need of the priests in the ivory tower too. But sometimes you forget that real people would be hurt by your decisions."
KABOOM.....
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So, no "F" bombs. But let's just say I have an extremely high regard for those actually IN the trenches. Even some like Fr. Blake, who don't use female servers. He, at least, has been tearing his hair out with WHAT to do with them, and knows "ironing is not the answer." And for sure he hasn't sounded the weensiest bit misogynistic.
So for anyone who's wondered, as someone else has on Fr. Ray's blog "why can't I see "Z"s blog" you've either said something like "where have you been pastor?" that he got peevish over....or he just blanket jammed your whole URL address and you just got swept up. Tant pis. For such a technowhiz I'm a little surprised he doesn't seem to realize there are infinite ways around his kludge of a lockout. My theory is, given that's the case, why bother? Whatever. I realize this post is bound to offend quite a few "Z" fans, but, "oh well" - an inquiring mind wanted to know....
Somewhere in my collection there's a recording of Pete Seeger singing "Little Boxes."
I feel a song coming on.
“[Hardly. The “I’m taking my ball and bat and going home!” approach is not necessary. However, I would rather people not post if they are going to drag entries down endless rabbit holes of bickering. – Fr. Z]” [This was in regards someone else's post who wasn't buying the party line.]
Fr. Z. with all due respect you do not “call” people who buy your party line when they get out of line. [You must have an image of me sitting at my computer, repeatedly hitting the refresh button so that I can analyze every comment. Nope.] For instance (just to pick one) AnAnonymousSeminarian can say deprecating things like “girl altar boys” and that’s just hunky dory with you. [Well.. I don’t personally have too much problem with that, since I don’t think the service of girls at the altar is a good idea, but I can see why some people might say that it shouldn’t be put that way.] You have said in the past on another post that “the discussion needs to go ‘x’ way.” It’s quite one thing for a practicing Catholic to be expected to toe the party line on actual doctrine. But just because something is a custom, doesn’t mean that in some cases the custom is now counterproductive. If there are enough seminarians around to serve Mass. Well and good, they should. But in parish churches there simply aren’t. Either “the laity” are equal, or they’re not. [Sure they are “equal” in terms of dignity, but they are not “identical” in their roles, either as men or women nor with the clergy.] I never notice people whining on your blog re: women helping take up the collection, or count it, or locking up when needed … all traditionally jobs of the porter. But we’ll NEVER see a comment about “all those evil misguided women helping count the collection.” Nor will we. The minor orders are simply GONE as per ‘69 or 70. Get over it. [FYI… this whole strand in this thread is now over. Rabbit hole. I am now finishing with someone griping about how unfair my blog is. Go start your own and run it the way you want.]
In my growing up years girls were NON-EXISTENT as far as most priests were concerned. [So, we are back to someone’s personal experience being made the standard for the Church and the perspective on girls everywhere. Okay.] One of the few whose name I remember was Fr. Krimm, a Redemptorist of late and happy memory, in the parish of Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Salem, Va. in the mid-1960s. He did allow the girls to do what they could when the NO came in. He let the sodality girls bring up the gifts especially once a month. The man spent time with us, leading our sodality meetings and didn’t treat as as junior washerwomen in training. He looked after our SPIRITUAL formation. Is ironing the altar cloths a labor of love? You bet it is, and I’ve done that chore too. But it’s not the best way to attract a young girl when she might get the idea that a priest only sees women as being the only ones doing the scut work. In other words, there is nothing particularly inspiring when Fr. says “Johnny, come here while I tell you all about why incense is used and how to use it – oh, Suzie, not you, go iron with your mother.” [That’s the way it goes, I guess. Would you feel better if he made the boys go iron too? Would that have solved the problem?] [Notice it hasn't occured to him, that gee, Suzie might like to know the WHYs and WHENs even if he's not going to give her the secret handshake. Yup. It would kill him! ;-D And yeah, Maybe if Johnny took a turn at the iron, he'd appreciate what a time consuming job that is!] Fr. Krimm will forever be in my prayers for realizing that the girls had some brains and were worth spending time with too. He treated us like Mary instead of Martha. Martha is needed too, but Mary chose the better part, and some of you are denying her. If Jesus had treated women like some of you do, I don’t think I’d have kept the faith.
Yeah, singing in a choir for girls can be nice, but not all can carry a tune. And quite a few of your posters would even deny the ones who can sing. God knows why, there being a shortage of castrati.
[Altar girls were introduced as a liturgical abuse. Thus, it was an act of injustice against the girls. They were instrumentalized to violate the Church’s law. There are also good practical reasons why the service of girls at the altar, permitted now by law, should only be applied in very narrow circumstances and why boys should always be preferred. Furthermore, the Church’s guidelines on this stress the importance of the tradition of male service and that it is to be preferred. That’s just the way it is. Sorry. If I were pastor of your parish, you might see that I have a somewhat broader understanding of the role of women in the Church, but this is a blog, not a parish. I won’t let it be derailed.]
Okay… that’s it. The last comment, now deleted, got personal. The poster is now gone from the blog. I am shutting down the combox.
Comment by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — 29 June 2008 @ 6:43 pm